Folks, I'm doing some research on Jelly Bryce, Jerry Campbell and one other OK officer who joined the FBI together in '34. Legend has it that these gents participated later in some of the infamous shootouts, ie. Dillinger etc. Does anyone have any actual "lists" of participants at, say, the Biograph, and Ma Barker's killing, that can be verified? We all heard of Purvis, Cowley etc. leading, but who was actually there? Thanks, larry

Larry,

There is a book on Jelly Bryce written by Ron Owens, retired OCPD officer. Several Oklahoma City policemen were hired by the FBI, including Clarence Hurt. Hurt was present when Dillinger was shot.

thanks Dee. I'll look up the book. Supposedly Campbell was there too according to one retired FBI Agent but he had heard that story from a friend of Campbell. Also, some rumor that Bryce was at the Ma Barker killing but nothing to really document that short of an FOIA request. Any info on that? larry

There is an excellent book on the Barkers called "Mean Men." I will take a look and see if Bryce is named as being present.

Larry another good source for the info you are looking for is a new book called "Public Enemies" by Bryan Burroghs. In it he discusses the gun men Hoover hired to supplement his ivy league lawyers.

guys thanks, and pls look for my next posting which is self explanatory called "Hoover's Gunslingers; Jelly Bryce et al"

larry wack

Larry, I've seen the reports of the agents present at the Biograph shooting. Dillinger was shot by both Clarence Hurt and Charles Winstead. The only other agent who in a position to fire was Herman Hollis, who missed. Jerry Campbell was present at the stakeout.

maddog, thanks much. when you say "reports," are you referring to the official police/FBI FOIA reports or something else? thanks an p.s. I'm trying to verify the existence of a "flying squad" at the time consisting of Bryce, Hurt, Campbell and/or others. Anything on that?
thanks, larry

FOIA reports. Each of the 17 agents present at the Biograph filed a report to Washington on his activities that night and what went on around them. I'd have to look it up but have got the names of the agents who were there. Bryce wasn't one of them and I don't think came to Chicago till afterward but Hurt and Campbell were there. As far as a "flying squad" goes, I couldn't say for sure on that but Chicago agents did travel to other parts of the country in other apprehensions, i.e. Floyd, the Barkers and Karpis.

hey thanks much. you've been a big help. I am now trying to get some documented info on the Texas lawmen hired at the time of the Oklahoma guys, and whether these "gunslinger" types were in fact only from those 2 territories. By the way, here's one retired Agent's account of Jerry's retirement dinner, fyi:

I was a young second office agent in San Francisco in the mid-60's.
Probably in 1965, Jerry Campbell, at that time a Resident Agent at Palo
Alto, retired. A retirement in those days was a big event in a field
office, owing to the demographics of the Bureau. There just weren't
many guys around who had served at least twenty years.

The "coffee and cake" in honor of Jerry that afternoon was a happy and
festive occasion. SAC Curt Lynum read a few highlights from Jerry's
personnel file. I remember the file revealed that Jerry's first SAC in
Chicago was Sam Cowley, who obviously had a high regard for Jerry.

Jerry spoke a bit about his career. He was on a "flying squad", that I
think Cowley personally headed, that flew around on charters, following
good leads on the most notorious Bureau subjects of the day. I remember
specifically that Jerry talked about being in on the shootout with Ma
Barker and company in Florida.

Apparently in those days Jerry and his fiancé were trying to set a
wedding date and be married, but those flying trips kept conflicting
with wedding plans. The file showed, or Jerry said, that a Hollywood
"Grade B" movie (you old timers know what they were)was actually made
about Jerry's attempts to get married.

In the very early Bureau of the 1920's and 1930's, the "career
development program" was pretty informal. Mr. Hoover moved people up,
down and around without a whole lot of discussion and formality. If you
were a street agent in Detroit who did a heckuva job solving a bank
robbery one week, you might find yourself named SAC Denver the next
week. (If you screwed that up, you might quickly be a street agent
again, perhaps in Kansas City). My point in bringing that up is that I
believe while serving as SRA, Palo Alto, probably in the 40's or 50's,
Mr. Hoover (as best as I recall) made Jerry SAC, Little Rock. Jerry
reported, but didn't enjoy the assignment. He asked Mr. Hoover to
return him to Palo Alto, which was done.

Jerry Campbell was a legend, and I'm glad I had a chance to know him,
even for a short while. Regards

The other guy who shot Dillinger, Charles Winstead, was an ex-cowboy and former Texas lawman (sheriff, deputy, constable for a while, I think) from Sherman, who's said to have been quite a marksman and who had comparatively little educational training for a G-man but he'd been with the Bureau quite a while. Since like 1925 or '26, if I remember right. He worked out of the Dallas FBI office and was on the Barrow case until May 23, 1934 when he was transferred to Chicago. Other veteran lawmen with the Bureau before Hurt and Bryce included ex-Texas Rangers Gus Jones (who headed the Kansas City Massacre & Urschel kidnapping cases) and the White brothers, Tom (involved in the Osage murder investigation in 20s and later warden at Leavenworth) and "Doc" (whose real first name I forget at the moment but as I recall he was also in the Biograph stakeout). There is some brief biographical info on Gus Jones in William Warren Sterling's book "Trails and Trials of a Texas Ranger" and someone once did a biography of him called "A Man Named Jones" but I haven't seen it.

Doc White is quoted in my book "Alive If Possible, Dead If Necessary." Doc was telling a younger agent how he never entered a dangerous situation without his gun in hand, regardless of a policy that it be kept holstered. His brother Tom White also participated in an incredible gunfight while a Dallas police detective.

maddog and dee, thanks much for the input. I am looking over Byron Burroughs book now. I want to query the retired agents to see if anyone left alive recalls the Texas "gunslinger" crowd and I'll let you know, as I posted with Jerry Campbell.

What I am trying to find out now, since many are way ahead of me in research is, is there "such an animal around" that you might know of such as a "list" of those present at the various famous gangland shootings, i. e. Barker, Floyd, etc.? What I'm trying to do is see how many of the Oklahoma and Texas gunmen types were present at each and attempt to link them to this "flying squad" I've been hearing about. I'm also trying to find out what Charlie Winstead's rift with Hoover was that was mentioned somehwhere. thanks, larry wack

quote:

Originally posted by larry:
maddog and dee, thanks much for the input. I am looking over Byron Burroughs book now. I want to query the retired agents to see if anyone left alive recalls the Texas "gunslinger" crowd and I'll let you know, as I posted with Jerry Campbell.

What I am trying to find out now, since many are way ahead of me in research is, is there "such an animal around" that you might know of such as a "list" of those present at the various famous gangland shootings, i. e. Barker, Floyd, etc.? What I'm trying to do is see how many of the Oklahoma and Texas gunmen types were present at each and attempt to link them to this "flying squad" I've been hearing about. I'm also trying to find out what Charlie Winstead's rift with Hoover was that was mentioned somehwhere. thanks, larry wack

HI larry...AS regards Charlie Winsteads transfer to Oklahoma City...There is quite a detailed account of Winstead in'The Bureau: My Thirty Years In Hoover's FBI' By William Sullivan with Bill Brown.ISBN 0-393-01236-0 Sullivan who was Winsteads under study in Albuquerque in 1942 sais that Winstead voiced opinions about "The Russians fighting our battles...ect. that were at odds with the then prevailing wisdom at FBI HQ. he said this to a journalist who reported him to Hoover,who was "Terribly Embarresed" and it was goodbye Charlie. The book is a good read and the chapter on Winstead is an intriquing miniture portrait of a best kept secret. Hope this is of some help...if you can't find the book I could send you some relevant pages....Best Pat Gavin
P.S When I found out that winstead was the agent who actually killed Dillinger I was moved to doggeral verse...

Of Charles B Winstead

It was occasionally said

That it was he

Who put the bullet

Into John Dillingers head

Who fell flat on his face

In an alley and said

"Ooh, it hurts quit a bit"

And that was the end of it

For John Dillinger was dead

And Charles B Winstead

Went home to his bed

And to his wife

And to the rest of his life

_____________________

I'm not sure weather he was married or not

but it scanned....the only thing remarcable about this bit of doggeral is that I managed not to include the rhyme "The woman In Red..."

nice talking to you

Pat many thanks for your reference to Winstead in Sullivan's book. I'll have to find it. thanks again, and nice talking. larry

Agents present at Fred Barker/Kate Barker shootout: SAC E.J. Cowley, R.D. Brown, G. C. Campbell, R. L. Jones, V. J. Wolfe, T. W. McDade, S.K.McKee, T.M. McLaughlin, J. L. Madala, W. C. Ryan, D. F. Sullivan, Thomas C. Melvin, J. C. White, A. A. Muzzey and C. B. Winstead.

Larry,

Ron Owens's JELLY BRYCE - LEGENDARY LAWMAN and Bryan Burrough's PUBLIC ENEMIES, both of which have been mentioned by others on this thread, reference a special roving squad the FBI set up to pursue the Midwest "public enemies."

In BRYCE Owens states that, almost immediately after being hired by the Bureau, Bryce was assigned to a "special squad" that pursued the public enemies. Having "no real home office," he worked out of whatever field office was most centrally located, and went "wherever the case took him."

In ENEMIES, Burrough's describes the "Dillinger Squad" set up at the Bureau's Chicago Field Office, and headed by Cowley. After Cowley's murder, the squad "now known as the Flying Squad" after Dillinger's death, was taken over by Earl Connelley, formerly SAC in Cinncinnati.

It was called the Flying Squad, according to Burrough, because its members would literally fly all over the country following up leads.

If I might add some speculation, Hoover is supposed to have said on several occasions that he wanted to transform the FBI into "an American Scotland Yard." The Yard's Flying Squad, a mobile team of detectives set up in the 1920's to provide fast response to the growing problem of organized armed robbery in London, was already internationally famous. Having a counterpart unit to Scotland Yard's celebrated detail might have appealed to him.

For Larry Wack:
From: George Franklin

My father, George H. Franklin (SA 1932-56)was one of Mr. Hoover's "hired guns". He helped recruit D.A. Bryce, Jerry Campbell and Clarence Hurt into the bureau. I knew Bryce well and he may have saved my life by shooting a bear off of me when I was about 15 yrs. old. At any rate I was interested to know if you were able to locate Johnny Bryce? We grew up together in Alb., NM and it would be great to get in touch with him again. I had heard years ago that he was a police officer somewhere in OK but was never able to locate him.

I would be happy to share any info I may recall about my dad and his FBI career with you if you are interested. One of the Dillinger detail (Biograph) not frequently mentioned is Ray Surran (backdoor of Biograph). I will check to see if any of Winsteads kids are still in this area.

George Franklin
USMC Ret.

Hello I'm the nephew of Jerry Campbell who was husband to Stella(Betty)Childress of El Reno ,OK

He was married to my mother's sister..

Met him just before he died.

I am one of many grandchildren of Daniel Patrick Sullivan. My uncle Dan was born in Chicago while my grandfather served in the Chicago office. He knows quite a bit about personal relationships that my grandfather had with several agents. He is open to speaking with people and filling in any gaps that he can. He has told me that he my grandfather kept in contact with several of the agents after he left the FBI in 1942. Please email me if you are interested in speaking with my uncle and I can have it arranged.

Mike Sullivan