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Jesse and Frank James
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I saw that, but funny...I have transcript of a freedman's account of Jesse and Frank as I meantioned...but he indicated it was in 1882, which lends thought to the guy on the history channel and his theory of death dates.
quote:
Originally posted by Norm:
Last night the History Channel had a very intersting and thought provoking segement on Jesse & Frank James.

A group of researchers located 3 sites in Kansas where it was believed that the James gang had stashed loot. They were "Mason Jar" banks not buried very deep. They found a lot of silver dollars dated 1880 on first dig, later in various locations, they uncovered jar lids, glass jars, Silver dollars and 10 & 20 dollar gold coins. Then, a gold bar was found at the base of an old tree.

The significience of these coins are the dates. The dates were from 1880 to 1892, long after Jesse was killed by Bob Ford.

To make a long story short (you can probably find the entire story online at History Channel)they found evidence (no concrete proof) but I would say very probable that Jesse James may have faked his death and went by the name J. M. James, b. 1840-47 in MO.

He has a grandson they interviewed and he was said to look very much like Frank. a photo was shown of this J. M. James and they compared his mug to that of young Jesse James. They used digital experts with fancy software programs which gave them a good match between this J. M. and Jesse. The team of ? possibly archologists or whatever were really looking for a big treasure. They were shut down by weather and the need for a better digger as they had gone about 20 or 30 feet deep and needed to go about 8-10 to what radar showed to be a 3' x 5' box full of glitter. "Indian Trinkets"? Hope not.

I checked the census for 1870 of Wilson Co., KS and find Jermiah M. James, born MO. In 1880 census reflects born KY. I know, Census were not very accurate. Later, I think 1900, listed as Jerry M. James.

I didn't check any further as I am busy working on other projects but it was very interesting.

I have reported all I know from watching part of the program so if your interest is in the James Gang maybe there is a transcript at History online.
 
Posts: 10 | Registered: Sun December 06 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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http://www.okgenweb.org/~okgar.../harrisnathanipp.htm
quote:
Originally posted by Bud Hardcastle:
I will add a little to the post I made last night..Tower spoke of Jesse knowing the Kimberlins who ranched near White Bead.. That family still lives on the Kimberlin ranch there.. Susie told me that they have a pistol at the ranch that belonged to Jesse Jesse James. We know that Dr. frank James removed a bullet from Jesse on the banks of the washita River near Old Cherokee Town.. Adriene Grimmett from Pauls Valley recently brought me a copy of Michael Towers new book" 911 was not an Option" Tales of Lawlessness Along The Middle Washita River.. I have lived in this area all my life, and also being a relative of U.S. Marshall John Swain, the history of this area intrigues me.. I would like to say that Towers book is great, and I would recommend it to everyone..Bud Hardcastle
 
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Nat Harris also gave an interview for the PV Democrat, June 6, 1935. However, in this one he did not mention the James boys. And, Nat usually had his dates wrong by 10 years...
 
Posts: 508 | Location: Elmore City, Ok, USA | Registered: Fri December 12 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That is the usual case with old timers...for instance, the misinfo still given today about the origin of the name Whitebead...was not named after the woman. That came from an interview with one of the Pauls after he got a bit in his dotage.
 
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But then again, the Democrat never gets anything right.
 
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As to White Bead Hill, this is the explaination I have in my latest writing: "This place was a collection of raw board and cottonwood log buildings on the site of an old Caddo Indian village located on the government road from the Caddo station of the MKT railroad to Fort Sill. It gained its name from Aaron Harlan, an intermarried Choctaw who set up a trading store there in 1870 and who used the moniker for his store. According to the earliest residents, Harlan borrowed the name from a band of Indians living in the area who called themselves White Bead Caddo’s. Another story insists the name came not from the band but from an old lady in charge of affairs called White Bead from the strand she wore. Both stories could be right; the truth is no one knows for sure, but the uniqueness of the title took hold and the community is still known as White Bead.
The village then as now is on a prominence five miles west of present Pauls Valley. Though called a hill, it is actually part of the south ridge parallel to and overlooking the Washita River valley. At the time Heck first saw it the surrounding country was a rolling prairie covered in bunch grass; trees being found only at springs or along the river. The abundance of grass and water made the area attractive to cattlemen and several set up shop nearby. The store then grew into a village to service these ranches; its shops and mechanics catering to the immediate needs of territorial cattlemen. Because of this, goods offered were of the most common and durable variety.
Circumstance caused the village to grow and endure. The fortuitous accident was Sam Garvin, an intermarried rancher who ran stock over a large section of the northern Chickasaw Nation. He, having a large family, and wanting his children to receive a good education, originally tried living in the border towns of Kansas where he also had a ranch. But the constant travel between properties was wearying. So, being tied to his wife and kids, and they being more tied to the Territory, Garvin, for the benefit of his children, capitulated and financed the construction of a Methodist Missionary school called the Pierce Institute. The school quickly became one of the finest in the American West and attracted many of the territorial elite. The stability the institution brought caused the community to expand. Soon the town was boasting a mercantile store, hotel, barber, doctor, and church. And, although primitive in terms of amenities and structures, White Bead in the mid-1880’s was the largest population center west of Muskogee in the Creek Nation and east of Ft. Sill. But White Bead Hill was doomed to fail for it lay off the path chosen by the railroad in 1886. Thus, even before the tracks pushed through, business houses began to fold and move closer to the Pauls Valley depot.
 
Posts: 508 | Location: Elmore City, Ok, USA | Registered: Fri December 12 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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When a request for the post office (I think around 1871) was put in, it required the origin of the requested name. White Bead Hill, the original name, of which I have cancelled envelopes from, was named after Chief White Bead of the Caddo's, according to the U.S. Postal Service records. This namesake is somewhat skewed. His name was George Washington (christian name) and he was a chief of the White Bead clan of the Caddo tribe (northern) from Texas. He and some other Caddos camped at the springs (there are two) on the hill, or slope, and served as scouts for the Confederates. The confusion about the woman would be because she was of this same clan, and naturally wore a string of white beads, as did they all. Political correctness finds easy roots in this story. In the past few years the myth has grown to her being a "princess"...that is a crock. After the war, George broke his tribal nomad tradition and settled into his own spread on the Chisolm Trail where it crosses either the Washita or Canadian. My notes are at my other house. But he may have been somewhat north of where Muncrief settled at Old Fred, where Sam Garvin's actual first born is buried. But that is another story.
quote:
Originally posted by Tower:
As to White Bead Hill, this is the explaination I have in my latest writing: "This place was a collection of raw board and cottonwood log buildings on the site of an old Caddo Indian village located on the government road from the Caddo station of the MKT railroad to Fort Sill. It gained its name from Aaron Harlan, an intermarried Choctaw who set up a trading store there in 1870 and who used the moniker for his store. According to the earliest residents, Harlan borrowed the name from a band of Indians living in the area who called themselves White Bead Caddo’s. Another story insists the name came not from the band but from an old lady in charge of affairs called White Bead from the strand she wore. Both stories could be right; the truth is no one knows for sure, but the uniqueness of the title took hold and the community is still known as White Bead.
The village then as now is on a prominence five miles west of present Pauls Valley. Though called a hill, it is actually part of the south ridge parallel to and overlooking the Washita River valley. At the time Heck first saw it the surrounding country was a rolling prairie covered in bunch grass; trees being found only at springs or along the river. The abundance of grass and water made the area attractive to cattlemen and several set up shop nearby. The store then grew into a village to service these ranches; its shops and mechanics catering to the immediate needs of territorial cattlemen. Because of this, goods offered were of the most common and durable variety.
Circumstance caused the village to grow and endure. The fortuitous accident was Sam Garvin, an intermarried rancher who ran stock over a large section of the northern Chickasaw Nation. He, having a large family, and wanting his children to receive a good education, originally tried living in the border towns of Kansas where he also had a ranch. But the constant travel between properties was wearying. So, being tied to his wife and kids, and they being more tied to the Territory, Garvin, for the benefit of his children, capitulated and financed the construction of a Methodist Missionary school called the Pierce Institute. The school quickly became one of the finest in the American West and attracted many of the territorial elite. The stability the institution brought caused the community to expand. Soon the town was boasting a mercantile store, hotel, barber, doctor, and church. And, although primitive in terms of amenities and structures, White Bead in the mid-1880’s was the largest population center west of Muskogee in the Creek Nation and east of Ft. Sill. But White Bead Hill was doomed to fail for it lay off the path chosen by the railroad in 1886. Thus, even before the tracks pushed through, business houses began to fold and move closer to the Pauls Valley depot.
 
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Concerning the Methodist school, that would be the Pierce Institute. Garvin's wife donated the land, as she did for the cemetery. W.G. Kimberlin donated $3,000 for construction. J.C. Powell, a former circuit rider ran it. The Methodist Conference for Indian Territory met there two separate years. One of the teachers lived on Mr. K's ranch. When winds ripped it up in 1905, it was immediately torn down and the lumber was used to build Kimberlin Chapel, the parsonage that burned around WWII, and a farmhouse that was dismantled about 12 years ago. I have some of the origanal boards and nails and one pew from the original building. I recently found two negatives in my safe. Had them printed and one was the chapel being built (1905), and the other when it was finished some weeks later.
quote:
Originally posted by grant kimberlin:
When a request for the post office (I think around 1871) was put in, it required the origin of the requested name. White Bead Hill, the original name, of which I have cancelled envelopes from, was named after Chief White Bead of the Caddo's, according to the U.S. Postal Service records. This namesake is somewhat skewed. His name was George Washington (christian name) and he was a chief of the White Bead clan of the Caddo tribe (northern) from Texas. He and some other Caddos camped at the springs (there are two) on the hill, or slope, and served as scouts for the Confederates. The confusion about the woman would be because she was of this same clan, and naturally wore a string of white beads, as did they all. Political correctness finds easy roots in this story. In the past few years the myth has grown to her being a "princess"...that is a crock. After the war, George broke his tribal nomad tradition and settled into his own spread on the Chisolm Trail where it crosses either the Washita or Canadian. My notes are at my other house. But he may have been somewhat north of where Muncrief settled at Old Fred, where Sam Garvin's actual first born is buried. But that is another story.
quote:
Originally posted by Tower:
As to White Bead Hill, this is the explaination I have in my latest writing: "This place was a collection of raw board and cottonwood log buildings on the site of an old Caddo Indian village located on the government road from the Caddo station of the MKT railroad to Fort Sill. It gained its name from Aaron Harlan, an intermarried Choctaw who set up a trading store there in 1870 and who used the moniker for his store. According to the earliest residents, Harlan borrowed the name from a band of Indians living in the area who called themselves White Bead Caddo’s. Another story insists the name came not from the band but from an old lady in charge of affairs called White Bead from the strand she wore. Both stories could be right; the truth is no one knows for sure, but the uniqueness of the title took hold and the community is still known as White Bead.
The village then as now is on a prominence five miles west of present Pauls Valley. Though called a hill, it is actually part of the south ridge parallel to and overlooking the Washita River valley. At the time Heck first saw it the surrounding country was a rolling prairie covered in bunch grass; trees being found only at springs or along the river. The abundance of grass and water made the area attractive to cattlemen and several set up shop nearby. The store then grew into a village to service these ranches; its shops and mechanics catering to the immediate needs of territorial cattlemen. Because of this, goods offered were of the most common and durable variety.
Circumstance caused the village to grow and endure. The fortuitous accident was Sam Garvin, an intermarried rancher who ran stock over a large section of the northern Chickasaw Nation. He, having a large family, and wanting his children to receive a good education, originally tried living in the border towns of Kansas where he also had a ranch. But the constant travel between properties was wearying. So, being tied to his wife and kids, and they being more tied to the Territory, Garvin, for the benefit of his children, capitulated and financed the construction of a Methodist Missionary school called the Pierce Institute. The school quickly became one of the finest in the American West and attracted many of the territorial elite. The stability the institution brought caused the community to expand. Soon the town was boasting a mercantile store, hotel, barber, doctor, and church. And, although primitive in terms of amenities and structures, White Bead in the mid-1880’s was the largest population center west of Muskogee in the Creek Nation and east of Ft. Sill. But White Bead Hill was doomed to fail for it lay off the path chosen by the railroad in 1886. Thus, even before the tracks pushed through, business houses began to fold and move closer to the Pauls Valley depot.
 
Posts: 10 | Registered: Sun December 06 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am quite sure that the James loot is questioned to be all over the state. My great grandmother said that when metal detectors became available, two men came to the ranch here and were looking for remnants of a "wall or fence", saying that they were looking for loot. I doubt they had any reason other than blind hope that something was here because of the James' visits.
quote:
Originally posted by Oklahoma Kid:
I have always heard that Jesse and Frank James hid out in the Indian Territory during their run from the law. Does anyone know when and where they hid out in the territory? I read an article once that they hid a stash of loot somewhere in southwest Oklahoma near Fort Sill that has never been found.
 
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