CHRIS MADSEN’S 1941 INTERVIEW
by Diron Lacina Ahlquist
Copyright, 2002

On a recent research trip to the Indian Archives of the Oklahoma Historical Society, I was lucky enough to have my attention called to a recently discovered interview of Oklahoma lawman, Chris Madsen, by archivist Sharron Ashton. The interview was done on March 30, 1941 by Professor John Alley of the University of Oklahoma at the lawman’s home in Guthrie, Oklahoma. Following the meeting, the Professor’s notes were transcribed by Ruth H. Delaney and mailed to Alley who in turn returned the manuscript to Delaney with the request that she have Madsen make any corrections or additions he deemed necessary. The copy of the manuscript in the Oklahoma Historical Society collection contains many of these additional notations and very well may be in Madsen’s own hand. The transcription that follows contains the additional notes made on the Historical Society’s manuscript.

INTERVIEW WITH MR. CHRIS MADSEN AT HIS HOME IN GUTHRIE, OKLAHOMA, MARCH 30TH, 1941

Born Feb. 25, 1851 in N. Schleswig, (near Flemsburg) Denmark (now Germany). Entered U.S. 1st week of January 1876. I joined the cavalry by enlisting in New York City on January 21, 1876. I was sent out from New York to Fort Hayes, Kansas where I was with the 5th Cavalry. On June 5th, 1876, we started from Fort Hayes to go up in the Black Hills. We took our horses with us. There were only four companies of the 5th Cavalry went from Fort Hayes, the rest being from other Forts. When we got to Cheyenne, a cyclone came up there. During the night the car (railroad) next to the engine took fire from the sparks from the engine. We were up on a high embankment. We had to kill 17 horses to keep them from burning to death. We got into Cheyenne, unloaded there and waited for Buffalo Bill to join us. He came in about the 5th, the 7th, 8th or 9th of June. He was assigned to the 5th Cavalry. We went from Cheyenne to Fort Laramie. Gen. Sheridan came to Fort Laramie and one company was sent out ahead to escort him to Fort Robinson, Nebraska. I was one of those sent ad we met him at Chuck Water, half way between Fort Laramie and fort Robinson. Sheridan was going to Fort Robinson to investigate the Indian situation. He was in an ambulance, drawn by mules, and we had to follow him all the way to Fort Robinson that way and then we returned to Fort Laramie. We were away about a week.

We started from Fort Laramie, 9 companies of 5th Cavalry, when we got back. We were to close the Reservation at Hat Creek. We were patrolling during the latter part of June, for about three weeks. We had a few little skirmishes with the Indians, but it didn’t amount to much. On the 12th of July we received the news of Custer’s Massacre. Buffalo Bill brought in the news. We were about 300 miles from the Big Horn at that time. Gen. Crook was up on a creek called Tongue River, but before we reached there had moved to the head of Goose Creek. He had been defeated by the Indians and he got back and fortified himself and on the 12th of July we got orders to go to the relief of Gen. Crook. In the meantime, Lt. Colonel Carr was relieved and Col. Wesley Merritt placed in command of the 5th Cavalry. He had just come from Sheridan’s headquarters in Chicago. When the order came, we started back. We started back on the 12th of July and that night we camped at a place called Cardinal Chain. The next day we got into a place called Rawhide Creek. That was July 13th. The news then came in that the Indians at Fort Robinson had gotten out and were on the way to join Sitting Bull. Merritt had orders to join Crook without delay and they wanted uus to come back to Robinson to help them. It was a conflict of orders. Merritt took it into his own hands. Stanton (Paymaster), the fire eating scout, was sent up to Robinson and came back and told us the Indians were going to leave there on the 15th. At 2:00 o’clock in the afternoon the news got back and we started right back and marched 85 miles in 28 hours and got into Hat Creek. There were some big bluffs there and we got behind them where the Indians couldn’t see us from the direction they were coming. We stayed there all night (7 troops there). I was in the signal detachment. Early in the morning the Indians came and walked into the trap. That’s where Buffalo Bill killed Yellow Hand. Buffalo Bill came back by my picket (he had been out scouting) and told me they were 8 or 10 miles from us. He told me to signal into the command that Indians were coming. Merritt came up then and was right in behind with his command and we could see Indians coming down the ravine. We also saw two more couriers coming in and the Black Hills Stage was coming and the Indians meant to kill and rob them all. Merritt ordered Cody to go out and notify the couriers and the stage that the Indians were coming, but he didn’t get to them. The Indians were coming out of the ravine and Cody around the bluff and they met right at the point of the square. The minute they were in sight of one another, Cody and the Indian chief, Yellow Hand (or Hair) had their guns ready and they both fired at the same time. The Indian horse fell. Cody had shot the Chief through the leg and the bullet passed on into the horse. When the horse fell, it fell on the Chief’s leg. The Chief fired again and missed and Cody shot him right through the head. The rest of the Indians came on a dead charge thinking Cody was alone, but just then the 5th Cavalry deployed and charged. There was lots of shooting and fighting there, but the Indians ran before we could do much to them. No white men fell. I saw Cody kill Yellow Hand. I was engaged in that campaign within six months after I entered the United States Army.

There was a man named “Christian Madsen” killed in the Custer fight. I had some trouble with my papers on account of it and wrote to the War Department to explain that I was not the one. They wrote back that they were paying me a pension and they didn’t pay pensions to dead men. This was after the Spanish-American War. I saw the stone over the man’s grave with the name on it. He was also a Dane, but had served four years in the 7th Cavalry before the time of the Custer Massacre.

I was on duty as Quartermaster Sergeant at Fort Reno. One of the officers asked me to go down and help patrol the line. I went there the evening before the Opening. I stopped two fellows in a wagon going across the country (Deneen(?) later Governor of Illinois and D.A. Harvey, first Congressman, elected in 1890). The wagon was right on the line in Indian Territory. It was after dark when I came up to them. The wagon was on the north side of Darlington. I was northeast of Darlington when I heard the wagon.. I had several soldiers with me. I took the two men over to the Fort. I asked them where they were going and they said “Kingfisher”. They said they didn’t know they weren’t supposed to go through the country, but they did not that. I went on up to the Fort with them that same night. I turned them over to the officer there and they spent the night of April 21st there and then they were turned loose and went on up to Kingfisher. They told me who they were that night when I got them to the Fort. I went back on the line then.

I was on duty at Darlington at 12:00 the next day. I fired the shot for the opening at that place and then put the spurs to my horse (There were probably one hundred shots fired at the same time as one shot could not be heard for the 3 lines about 3-400 miles around). I had the best horse on the Post. He had been assigned to the band, but he couldn’t stand the music and would stampede the whole band. I took him myself, then. One time he got scared when I was riding him down the road and jumped and left me sitting in the middle of the road. I thought I was going to have to walk home, but he came back. Having the best horse, I left the others behind, there were wagons and horses all around me, and took a short cut through a slough while the others all went around. I went on about six miles down the River, on the North side of the Canadian. My place was one mile north and six miles east from El Reno. There was just one place between me and the river. Ben Keith (his wife was old Poison’s daughter, Arapahoe) had told me about the place, and I had already made up my mind about it before the run. There was an old preacher making the run, who caught up with me. He said would get ahead of me, that he had a relay waiting at Keith’s. I told him I would kill him and his horse, too, because he had no business in there before time for the run. He later lost his claim because of having made arrangements before the time. There were lots of people around me, I just went faster then they did, and was away out in the lead by the time I got to Keith’s. I didn’t run my horse more than the first mile. I stayed on my claim until evening, until the Run was over. There was an old shack on the place, where some Indian had lived before, and the people thought I was there to protect the Indian and no one bothered me.

Shortly after that, I was asked to come to the Kingfisher Land Office to identify and help some of the Indians to file their claims. I met Bill Grimes there. He said he would help me get in the Land Office to file my claim, but I said I could get in because I was a witness for the Indians. The Indians had to file just because the places had to be marked on the map so they wouldn’t file anyone else on it. I identified the Indians, and finally Robberts (J.C. Robberts) said “You can sit down and fill out some of those applications”. I made out some of the applications. They didn’t have to pay for theirs, but there was a $14.00 filing fee for white people. When I got through with theirs, I just made out my own, too, and put it in. Within a few days after the Run I went up to help the Indians, and filed my own claim, too. Some people objected to the soldiers filing, because they were in the army, but they said the soldiers were entitled to the same privileges as the others, and allowed them to file.

There were three soldiers, including myself, and one civilian employee at the Fort who had filed on the section where I was. We put up a big army tent right at the point where the quarters joined, and took turns staying there and keeping watch on things. One day one of the fellows came in and told me there was a man trying to take my place. I had already fenced the place. He had gotten in there, anyway, and was making a dugout. I went out there and told him it was my place, and he said that a fellow in Wichita had told him a soldier couldn’t file on a place. I told him he had one hold in his nose, and that he would have more if he didn’t get out quick. He started, and then sat on the fence, hesitating which way to go. I had given him so many minutes to get off, and warned him, and when he was still there, I fired my gun at him and filled him full of birdshot, and he got off I was forty or fifty feet away from him when I fired. He didn’t have time to holler, he just left. He didn’t bring any charges. They didn’t bring any charges against any soldiers, because soldiers stuck together, and people were afraid to complain against them, afraid the soldiers would get them some way.

I finished my third enlistment in the army a short time after New Year in 1891. This was 14 months after I filed. I paid out $1.25 an acre on the place just a short time before I went out of the army. I had married in 1888, and was living in the commissioned officers’ quarters at Fort Reno at first. Then, while the Quartermaster was away, we lived in his quarters, and by the time he got back, they had built non-commissioned officers’ quarters, and we moved there. After I got out of the army, we went to live on the claim. Then, in a short time, I was appointed Deputy Marshal by Grimes. I came up to Guthrie and helped Grimes with his books before I was out of the army. I was appointed in January 1891, and served the rest of Grimes’ term. I was the Chief Deputy. Had three or four Clerks and two stenographers. Took care of all the office work, the books, etc. and the field work.

At the time of the Spanish War, Grimes talked with me about going to join the Rough Riders. I was down on my claim at the time. My wife died on the day when the Rough Riders were mustered in at El Reno. I had a telegram from Col. Wood to come and take charge of the quartermaster’s office. I wired back that I couldn’t because my wife was not yet buried, and I had two small children. It was impossible to bury my wife in the cemetery, because of water there, so we made a cave in a hill on my place, lined it with boards and placed her there until winter, when she could be placed in the cemetery.

Some of the old officers of the 5th Cavalry were at San Antonio. Lieut. Bishop told Wood about my being here in Oklahoma, and Wood wired me. I got another wire from him on the next day, and I went up to El Reno. Woods had telegraphed to ex-Gov. Seay, and he had gotten after Grimes. Then Grimes came to El Reno and he said “Well, when did you get the telegram?”. I told him I wasn’t going, and he said must. Gov. Seay said “Grimes and I will look after the two children”, so I went down there that night. I went to Cuba with the Rough Riders, but came right back. 600 men went to Cuba. I wasn’t supposed to go; was supposed to stay and help the next group get ready. They started out from Port Tampa, and spied what they throught[sic] was a Spanish Man O’War and came back to Tampa and sent for more rations. I started packing up all the rations I could find around the camp (about 7 miles from Port Tampa). I had to take the stuff across on a pack train to Port Tampa, with mules. I had them tied two together, with one man to lead each two of them. When we got in the timber, we couldn’t keep the mules on the same side of the trees, one would go on one side and one the other. We had left the evening before, and didn’t get into Tampa Bay until daylight. The boat was on Pier 22. We had to stop and be identified on each pier on the way out there according to army orders and by that time half of the mules were out in the water. I finally got a boat and got out[sic] the ship, which was anchored away from the pier. Wood came up and said he would send for the rest right away. He said I would have to stay on the boat and go to Cuba to unload the rations and issue them until he got things straightened out. We got off at Las Guasimas and stayed there day or a day and a half, and then I was sent back. I got the yellow jaundice there, and was very sick. Was finally discharged on account of disability.

When we got into Montauk Point, there wasn’t one of the men able to walk to the hospital – all had to be carried. I was in charge of the rations for the company, and found out that I had only received what amounted to half rations. I went up to the commissary sergeant in the regular army and tried to get the rest of the rations, and the fellow there said I had all I could get. The man in charge came out and wanted to know what the trouble was. I told him and that I had been a commissary and he asked the other fellow how he came to figure them short. Finally told him to give me what I wanted. This officer offered me a job as a Clerk there in the commissary at $200.00 a month, but I refused, because I was sick. I got worse and worse, then. Major Hersey wanted me to sign with them and go on the parade to New York. I refused, because I was not able to ride a horse. The Doctor gave me a disability certificate. It was necessary to present it to Lieut. Col. Brodie for his approval. I had a lot of papers for him to sign, so I just stuck my application for discharge in with them, and got it approved that way. I went to Brig. Gen. Joe Wheeler, in command on Montauk Point, and asked him if he would approve the application. He said it had to [go to] Washington to be approved first (which I knew). He could see that I was really sick, and said the Secretary of War (Alger?) was in his tent at that time, and he would see him about it. Alger came out and looked at me, and he said there wasn’t any necessity for that application to go to Washington, because I would probably be dead before it could come back, and he signed it and approved the discharge for disability. Gen. Wheeler later asked me if I had been in the regular army. I already had my discharge, so I told him “yes”. He just laughed, and told me he was glad to have helped me out anyway.

This may set off a new round of Chris Madsen bashing, but it should dispel any notion that Uncle Chris did not know President Roosevelt.
From the Chickasaw Enterprise, December 19, 1901, date lined Washington D. C. December 15th—R. H. Herz and Chris Madsen, of Ardmore; one the chief clerk and the other a deputy of Marshal (J. S.) Hammer, arrived yesterday in the interest of Capt. Hammer, only to find the President had already given the place to B. H. Colbert. Madsen called on the President, however, in order to review his army acquaintance, having been a quartermaster sergeant in the Rough Rider regiment. The President received him cordially. While Madsen was with the President, Colbert came in and was informed by the President that he did not want Madsen removed. He also informed Colbert that there must be no wholesale removal of deputies if the men are the right kind of officers. This suggestion was made to Colbert because the President had been informed that Colbert had threatened to remove every man now connected to the office. The President also advised Colbert to avoid any friction whatever with Judge Townsend, and under no circumstances to criticize him. Colbert told the President that there would be no friction, and that personally he had the highest regard for the Judge.
(As a side note, Ben Colbert and Hammer had both been Rough Riders and Colbert was selected as one of the 29 members of the old regiment to act as a bodyguard escort for the President on inauguration day. Chris, by the way, was stationed at Chickasha, Ardmore being the Administrative Court and offices. On Feb. 5, 1902, Colbert officially took over as Marshal and Hammer was presented with a gold headed cane inscribed: “From the Deputies of the Southern District of Indian Territory to John S. Hammer, United States Marshal, Feb. 1, 1902.” )